Clutch Assembly

[Neil Yardley]

Sorry me again. I now have new seals fitted in the forks & the brake master cylinder. All seem to be functioning exactly as the doctor ordered. I used the ARI 029 as the outer fork seals they are fine.

Anyway my reason for the new post is the clutch. The lever is not breaking the drive between crank & wheel. So I have removed the chain pulling through a length of string to aid in refitting. then pulled the outer sprocket cover (sprocket atached) in that I seem lucky as the the flat on cover does just about clear the bottom frame tube after a bit of jigging. Then I have removed the clutch access cover. Looking at the clutch pressure plate the three studs that carry the spring retaining collars protrude from the collars by different amounts. one sticks through by 3 to 4mm whereas another is virtually flush, & the one standing clear has clearly been rubbing the inside face of the cover plate.. in fact it rather looks like one of the the collars has been rubbing the edge of the access hole.. The whole plate seems out of square... Is there a way to 'screw in' the collar retaining studs & then squaring up the clutch without removing the engine.

Please help.. Best regards Neil

[Smokey_Paul]

MMM Neil I have some photos of what you will see and I think I may be the bearer of bad news

Email me your details and I will send you some pictures

[Neil Yardley]

Hi Paul.

                Thanks for coming back. My e’mail is [hidden email] OK let me have it.. Bad news seems to have been the norm since I started on this bike.

 

Best Regards Neil

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: [hidden email]
Sent: 24 April 2017 00:09
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Clutch Assembly

 

MMM Neil I have some photos of what you will see and I think I may be teh bearer of bad news

Email me your details and I will send you some pictures

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[Neil Yardley]

Update on the clutch.. I have had to re-mothball the old girl .. (Silk not wife) due to a back injury.. Just on the off chance is anyone out there in the business or know of anyone who is up for doing a rebuild of a silk engine with special attention to the clutch. The engine is currently in the bike & was showing good signs of life.

Failing that, when I do come back to it, did I hear that there is a possibility of replacing the Silk clutch with one from a Triumph.. my understanding is that the silk clutch can be a bit of a liability & my experience to date has done nothing to dispel that..  If it is a recognised upgrade, what Triumph are we talking about & are there any details of how to go about it ? finally (but on the same subject) has anyone ever looked into the possibilty of using a Pete Kirby Clutch kit.. Probably clutching (excuse the pun) at straws. But they are superb units & He apparently does kits for Triumphs.. So

[gasman]

Hi Neil, Myself or preferably Clive will look at the engine for you. I have done several now but Clive probably might have more time.
As per the clutch, the only adjustment I have had to make is the operating arm which I have extended slightly which gives a better pull on the cable and makes it a bit lighter. Unless it is worn out they just need CAREFUL adjustment to make sure the plates lift equally as the plates can be flexed and judder etc if badly adjusted.
Kev

[Smokey_Paul]

Neil I cant remember where you are dont rush into a rebuild without first checking the set up perfectly first. It makes a real difference as Kev said above. The plates can stick but with some effort / perseverence they do clear.

[Neil Yardley]

Hi Paul. At the moment I am awaiting the return of the Silks owner from down under before responding to Gasman's kind offer,

The Silk is currently in the corner of my garage in 1 piece baring the final drive chain awaiting a decision on either its return to long storage or engine out again.. But I am reluctant to pull the engine as putting it in is what broke (excuse the exaggeration) my back & my original remit was to get the bike (that had stood in pieces for 30 years) into one piece.. It now stands in one piece & has ran all be it very briefly I think getting it 'rideable' given the marques history may be over egging the pud.. But If you think adjustment and a bit of effort may suffice to free the clutch..  So I am thinking its been under compression for 30+ years so the 'oil mist' is going to be pretty resinous gummy... If I make a best attempt to adjust the clutch as per the instructions then pull the lever to the bar with a cable tie.. Mist it with WD40 & give the plate an occasional 'tap' what harm can It do..

[Neil Yardley]

Awesome.. Had a tinker last night.. Adjusted the clutch & 'evened up' the other stud collars quick spray of WD40. Then adjusted the cable to 'tight' pulled the lever back to the bar a few times then secured it with a cable tie.. I then put her in first & with a large loose fitting ring spanner over the sprocket shaft I gave it a couple of 'tweeks' nothing happened.. rolled back on my heels to consider my options.. just gave it another 'tweek' for good luck & away it slipped.. beautiful.. snipped the cable tie & she grips again lever in & she's loose..

Thanks for the advice Paul.. I am well happy. Sorry Gasman!  guess I wont be needing your services just yet..

I am not kidding myself its gonna work perfectly on the road but at least I am a step forward..

The next problem (Clutch Again) is that the 'other' three studs with the collars on (not the adjustment ones) seem to be rubbing the inside of the clutch cover. & the collars were clipping the inside of the casing. I have wound the collars in to 2mm sub flush of the end of their studs (as mentioned above) which seems to put them clear of the casing but I am unsure of how to stop the stud ends rubbing. Any ideas !!

[Smokey_Paul]

Well done Neil I had a feeling that it would free, one member found cleaning with petrol worked very well in deed
Can you photo the clutch and post a picture? It should look like the pictures in the engine section on the site. The spring tension adjusters should be adjusted for nice even tension and even lift on the other adjusters with nuts when the backplane lifter separates the clutch. They should be well clear and not rub anywhere, again try to add a picture of the witness marks.

[Smokey_Paul]

By the way there are a few of us on here who use our Silk quite regularly I was out on mine only the other day at a local cafe meet. Look after them like anything and they respond well

[Neil Yardley]

She runs... Really smokey but then I did add a glug of 2T oil to the fuel JIC.. & I had a short run up n down the road. First gear won't really select from a standstill but 2nd will & first does go in if rolling.. Probably just needs a bit of a run.. Thanks for the help fella's.

[hendred]

Well done.  My Silk is pretty smokey for the first mile after not running for a bit.  From what you have said I guess you haven't taken the clutch apart.  It's probably is a bit sticky with old oil.  Not difficult to take apart and clean - you'll be an expert on the Silk clutch soon!!!!!

All the best and I hope you and the owner enjoy riding the bike.  Attracts a lot of interest - many people have heard of the Silk but never seen one.

[Neil Yardley]

Topped her off with 5 litres of high octane.. then started her up, & she runs a lot cleaner.. almost to clean. so i tried pulling the oil pump throttle cable & nothing much changed.. So i am a little concerned about the pump.. is there a way of checking oil is getting through.. or is there a bleeding procedure..

[hendred]

I guess you tried the procedure in Section G1 of the Silk Manual and blipped the throttle after pulling the oil pump cable.  Check the air hole in the oil tank cap is clear, if blocked it will prevent oil flowing to the pump. (I use a piece of cling film under the cap if I want to disconnect the oil pipe without draining the tank.)  I don't know how to check the pump itself but the cover has to be replaced very carefully to ensure that the slotted arm connected to the cable is engaged with the peg on the pump.  The arm was slightly bent on my bike when I got it and the oil pump was on minimum setting all the time.  I found the easiest way to get it together was with the peg set about half way along the slot.

The small O rings should be replaced in the pump if you take it apart.

The oil pipes are quite long from the pump to the bearings and the pump doesn't pump a lot of oil.  It will take some time to fill the pipes if they have become empty for some reason.  I refilled mine by taking off the complete oil pump and filling the lines by pumping oil into them with an oil can and then replacing the pump.  Again the O rings should be replaced.  

Hope this helps.

[Staffs]

Neil Give me a call and I can give you a bit of advice and tips.
If it works for you perhaps you could write it up for the technical pages.
Phone in the evening between 6 and 7 01538 266160
Staffs (Clive Worrall)

[Neil Yardley]

Just realised this has little to do with the clutch as per the heading.. But rather than break the string... I pulled the oil pump, Initially separating at the crank case.. & I am glad I did. top left oil way was healthily returning oil onto my garage floor but bottom right was as dry as a chip  Good job I've been premixing.. or I guess I would have had a seizure to cope with (the initial reason for her 30 year lay up).. So for interest value which oilway feeds which pair of mains.. I am wondering if I might have found the reason for her initial seizure.. When I got the silk, the pump was dissassembled from its housing but mostly together, I gave the assembly a good cleaning (after the o'ring 'witnesses' had given me their hint as to how it all works).. but cowardice prevented me stripping it to piston level.. I guess I will have to now as one piston is clearly not delivering.. I will keep you informed as to the result of my endeavor..

Any hints would 'as ever' be much appreciated.

[hendred]

It's good you have found something - even if it's not good!  As far as I can remember it isn't difficult to take the pump apart.  I would take some photos as you go and make sure the pistons go back in the same bores.  There are some pretty small holes in the pump - perhaps one is blocked stopping the oil flow.  May clean out my oil tank this winter after reading your findings.

[Neil Yardley]

All done pistons etc seem fine, tried hand spinning the pump with wd40 to mixed results.. But promising enough so Reassembled to the bike. Plus rinsed out the oil tank & refilled with fresh semi skimmed.. Then ran her for a while. On premix.😉.. Had her smoking like the wife on tea break.. Obviously.. Then separated the pump from the crankcase again.. I now have oil on the engine side of both oil ways.. Although not getting 'drain back' from engine side.. Guess it could take a while to fill the pipes.. Anyway looking promising..

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From: [hidden email]
Sent: ‎28/‎10/‎2017 13:18
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: Clutch Assembly

It's good you have found something - even if it's not good!  As far as I can remember it isn't difficult to take the pump apart.  I would take some photos as you go and make sure the pistons go back in the same bores.  There are some pretty small holes in the pump - perhaps one is blocked stopping the oil flow.  May clean out my oil tank this winter after reading your findings.

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